He shakes his head. "No, no, that's what I was saying. That self-defense, that simply wanting to survive, is a reasonable justification for killing -- especially here. It doesn't mean that it's one I would feel comfortable using, but I don't think those who do are doing anything wrong."

Emboldened by what Leo's just said, he takes a chance: "Those who kill simply to kill, I have less understanding for. I know the Games are in part built around the spectacle of watching others suffer, but the tributes who take joy in that... I don't know. I think you're right, that a careful balance is needed between the kind of killing that makes someone a good candidate for Victor and the kind of killing that makes someone a monster."